The subject of banning orders of which were handed to two members of the Holmesdale Fanatics was a large talking point after the game against QPR last weekend, as the the group of ultras reduced their support of the team as a matter of protest against the bans that were imposed.
A debate then raged on between supporters of whether the protest was right, should the Fanatics get behind the team no matter what and whether the bans that were handed out necessary and valid. This continued onto Sunday where it was a point of discussion on Holmesdale Radio that broadcasts every Sunday at 8pm, reviewing the week of Palace news as well as the game that weekend.
The result of the debate on-air was an invite to see the footage with Steve Parish at the clubs’ London offices. Speaking to myself on behalf of both Holmesdale Radio and Read Crystal Palace, the Crystal Palace co-chairman said the following about the banning orders that were imposed.
What were the members of the Holmesdale Fanatics in question, banned for?
They were banned for creating a dangerous situation where people would get injured and we can’t get to a point where there’s almost anarchy, we’re not seen to be in control of the ground and people are doing what they want.
You’ve seen it, it’s people throwing themselves in the air from three rows back, to land on somebody is not permitted behaviour in a football stadium. It’s quite clear what we have to do and people need to understand that we have a higher masters – we have a safety council that can shut our stadium, if we’re not in control of it.
Our first obligation is towards the safety of people. We’ve got to make people safe and one kid has got hurt, you’ve seen it – there’s a guy that was pretty badly hurt and it could have been a lot worse. People on the periphery could have easily been caught up in it, a flying boot and lose sight in an eye.
It’s so far away from what you’re allowed to do in a football stadium, this is not celebrating a goal.
We want the best they have got to offer but sometimes they cross the line and we’ve had conversations with them about it, that shows them the level of detail that we’ve got. Come and enjoy the game, give us the best they have got, help create the atmosphere but not put themselves and other people in danger of getting hurt.
Have the Fanatics been warned before about their behaviour in the past?
Yeah, we’ve spoken to them about the smoke bombs, the bangers and the swaying from side to side. I mean that’s probably the worst we’ve seen so whether it’s just because we haven’t seen it before because we’ve never had the cameras and they do it quite regularly, I don’t know.
In terms of behaviour that can cause themselves injury and others, that’s the worst that we have seen beyond the smoke bombs and bangers. They’re good, we’ve spoken to them about it and we haven’t really seen those since then.
We’re pretty liberal in terms of what we want them to do, we don’t want to forget where we have come from, we don’t want a corporate stadium where everybody is sitting down nicely, watching the game but we have to be seen to be in control of the stadium, we have to look after people’s safety and make sure they don’t injure themselves and other people.
They’ve crossed the line and there is a couple of people organising it, this is a message to them: It won’t be tolerated, you’re going to see out bans until the end of the season and then as long as you’re remorseful, we’ll let you back in. Come back and enjoy the game, give us the best you have got.
Are they criminals? No. I’m not going to demonise these two guys, they’ve not hit an opposing fan. They’ve organised and been in the center of behaviour that is not allowed in the stadium and could injure somebody. They are putting their own safety and the safety of others at risk in quite a major way.
It’s just a message, look. We’re going to target the people who do things wrong, not the group as a whole. We’re not going to tarnish everybody with the same brush because there are a lot of people in there that are not. I haven’t got any problems with what they are doing, so I don’t want to demonise the group or target the group but clearly they can’t self-police because they’re all watching it and nobody is stopping it.
Do you think those who organised the protest were aware of the actual incident that led to the bans?
They probably think it is okay, they’re just messing around. I’ve been there and been that age, I know you haven’t got the same perspective then, in terms of what’s right and what’s wrong; also, your memory can dim as you’re in the heat of the moment, they probably can’t quite remember it as being quite bad as it was.
When they look back at that, if they’re watching it with you and me now – hopefully they would be able to see that.
We’re being strong, we’re sending a message. You can’t do it.
You’ve appointed someone as security manager for the stadium – was this a new position from when you took over?
Not really, no. Kevin Corner did it before he left. Kevin did stadium security, operations at the stadium but we have to have somebody that looks after security. One of our goals is to keep the Police out of the stadium, we have to pay for them so we’ve got a Police free stadium and this is the other problem. As soon as we’re seen not to be in control of the ground, the Police are put back in – then we have to pay £60k a game or £20k a game for the Police.
We have a great relationship with the Police, we have a great relationship with the safety council. We put our point of view across strongly, they either accept it or not accept it but we’re not entirely in control of this situation. Parts of the stadium, we could be ordered to close. We have to be seen to be controlling the crowd and making sure people can watch the game safely.
Adrian is there to help with not just this kind of security as we have loads of robberies during the day at the stadium, it’s too easy to get in, we get the lead nicked off the rooves so all of the security at the stadium on non-matchday’s is being beefed up and Adrian’s main job is to keep everyone safe inside the stadium. Bare in mind he’s was a season ticket holder in the Holmesdale; he’s got a background in crowd control and he is a really decent man, he wants people to enjoy themselves. He’s got more of a background than all of us in dealing with criminal activity and people.
I have to control the stadium and I have to make people safe, it’s my job. In the worst case scenario, we’ve seen Hillsborough at the moment, I could be criminally negligent in a circumstance that I don’t deal with. Say they do that next week and someone splits their head open and possibly die, we’ve seen one Palace fan take a punch outside a party last year, fall over and not go to hospital, he didn’t wake up the next day.
The body is a fragile thing, I know they’re young and they don’t understand it but it doesn’t take much to seriously injure somebody and people are at risk of real serious injuries if they behave like that. If someone smacks their head, that could be the end of them and if I don’t stop, I’m negligent. What do I do? Do I have another word with them? Oh yeah, we won’t do it again. Unfortunately, it hasn’t worked in the past and it will happen again.
New security cameras were installed at various other points outside the ground prior to the coin throwing incidents. Were they at that point – planned to go inside the stadium?
Yeah, the first aim of putting them in was in getting rid of all the wires. I was obsessed with getting rid of all these cables then obviously people came back and said they weren’t very good. For example, you couldn’t see who has done anything and I think there’s a requirement as well for it all to be better. Following the league requirement, looking at a way that we could stop the thefts during the day and my kind of obsession with targeting the individuals and not tarnishing people with the same brush.
Is it fair to say the majority of the fans were against the protest?
I don’t know. For me, surely the most important thing is supporting the team. If you believe you have that much influence on the result then you’re jeopardising the football club. I personally thought the support in the stadium was good on Saturday, the only thing I noticed was that they weren’t waving flags.
I think once they see it (the CCTV), they’ll understand.
Where does an incident like this leave the HF in terms of ow they are viewed by the club and its supporters?
We love them! I love them! They’re great, I think they create a great atmosphere – you should be allowed to come to football, express yourself and enjoy yourself. I’ve been there and I know what the excitement is like but sometimes you don’t know what is good for you, sometimes you need somebody looking out for you and just saying “boys, that’s a bit too far. You’re going to injure yourself or someone else.”
We all like what they do, we don’t want to go back – we don’t want to be a sanitised ground. It’s part of who we are, they are part of our identity – we use them in our marketing. I’m a big supporter of them and they’ve got to let me help them sometimes.
The HF claim that with stewards having their own body cameras, they have increasingly looked for opportunities to go into the stands and film fans excessively. From what we have seen though, it does look like that it is required?
I don’t think the body cameras have been there for that long and the problem we have is that individuals, not groups but individuals that sometimes abuse the stewards – you don’t come to football as a steward to be abused by somebody and it is really difficult to get evidence of that.
Every football stadium you go to, you are filmed. The only time I have ever had a problem was when a steward tried to take a camera away from a fan and the fan was filming the steward. I don’t agree with that, you’ve got to be held to a higher accountability as a steward and if somebody wants to film you doing your job, you can’t have it both ways. Everybody has got to behave properly towards everybody, a little bit of respect from everybody and we will all get on fine.
I respect them and respect their right to air their views.
Alan Pardew spoke with a group of supporters recently, thanking them for their continued support. Do you agree with him, saying that the support (including the Holmesdale Fanatics) are a key part to recent successes in the Premier League?
I think it has got to be consistent, I don’t think support of a football club can be used as a political tool – we will support you this week, we won’t support you next week. I think that is a dangerous area that we are getting into as Palace fans. Right now, our reputation is the best fans in the Premier League. I don’t want anything to damage that, I don’t want the supporters demonised, let’s keep ourselves as something we should be proud of and everybody has recognised that it helps.
We’ve got a manager now that gives credit to everybody, he’s not a manger that unlike some – that think everything good is them and not everybody else. When I was talking to Alan about coming here, he said that little corner that gets it all going, you need to keep that going. We want to keep it going, this is not the end of the wedge – everybody believes in what we are doing and we have got here by working together and by beating the odds. We beat the odds because some of our parts are better than the parts themselves.
Other clubs, not mentioning names. There are issues between the owners and the supporters, it’s not good and I think we have embraced everything about Palace including the heritage. I have been supporting the club for 44 years, I know every piece of the heritage and everything is important. I’m surrounded in the boardroom by Palace fans and people who have been going longer than me so we know what we are about and who we want to be but that doesn’t mean I can let people put themselves in danger whilst they’re at the stadium, I can’t. There’s a line and I think if we’re not careful, you start to splinter off and lose that togetherness and it damages the club – something none of us want.
You can listen to the whole interview as transcribed above on the Holmesdale Radio podcast from this week in which Chris, Tav, Albert and Terence take a look back on another away win as Palace came from behind to win at the Brittania. The recent HF protest was also discussed further.
